Back Talking vs. Appropriate Disagreements & The Rule of Three
Hey, I have read your book and have been trying to implement the system, however I have a few questions. My oldest son is 11, he has trouble controlling his emotions and talking back. Here is an example of a typical situation; I ask him to do something he makes a face and might say a smart remark but he will look me in the eye after I remind him and will say ok sarcastically then he will go do the chore.
He follows the steps the right way about 50% of the time. Today he was out of instructional control and me telling him that if he chose not to follow my instructions that the was going to chose to earn another chore didn’t work. He just sat there, so I left the room for a few minutes and when I came back he was ready to follow instructions. However he was only ready after I told him that he was going to lose all his privileges. My question is how long should he lose his privileges? He was calm, he just didn’t want to follow my instructions when I asked the first time.
He also talks back too much or tries to argue.
Did you teach him to disagree appropriately? Do you praise him and see his way when he does disagree appropriately? Are there negative consequences for not disagreeing appropriately? It sounds like he has a respect problem and frequent attitude problems. Do you praise him often for following all the steps that 50% of the time? Do you specifically tell him what he chose that was good?
If he was out of instructional control, you need to start the rule of three.
However he was only ready after I told him that he was going to lose all his privileges.
This shows you the rule of three would work well for him. You need to always say the same thing when he is not willing to follow instructions. He has to be able to follow instructions before any teaching or consequence accepting should happen.
My question is how long should he lose his privileges?
If my child goes all the way out of instructional control and goes through the whole rule of three then they lose their privileges for 24 hours.
He was calm, he just didn’t want to follow my instructions when I asked the first time.
If he doesn’t follow an instruction the first time then he earns an extra chore. If he doesn’t accept that consequence and still won’t follow instructions then you need to start the rule of three. His “just sitting there” is a power struggle by him. He is playing a game to try to make you question your government system. If he stays calm and just won’t follow instructions, then it looks like he has all the control and that there is nothing you can say to him. He looks untouchable. It is not true, he is out of control if he trying to take control by being passive/aggressive like that. It is also a good idea to say, “You look like you want to say something right now. Do you want to disagree appropriately? If not, then you need to just follow the instruction.” Remind him that you want to talk to him and hear his side.
The whole point of teaching him self-government is to help him learn better communication of his feelings and mastery of his behaviors, so you my have to tell him when to disagree appropriately at first and sometimes even tell him exactly what to tell you in his disagreement. Children who are just learning this skill aren’t practiced in voicing their feelings and concerns, they are more used to acting out to get their point across or to get their way.
He also talks back too much or tries to argue.
He’s not disagreeing appropriately………This earns an extra chore. Try prepping him to disagree appropriately when he seems like he is going to talk back or argue. Then you can praise him for disagreeing appropriately. Maybe he doesn’t see any benefit from choosing to disagree appropriately because he hasn’t seen that it works yet. Show him it works. Really listen to his disagreements and if they are appropriate and won’t really hurt anything, then for a little while go with it. He needs to see that he can make his life good by choosing calm communication. Then after a while say more no often and prep him to accept no answers. Has he learned all four basic skills?
Stay consistent! He will get learn self-government if you handle the situation the SAME every time. This teaches him cause and effect and helps him feel in control of himself and his consequences instead of encouraging him to fight for control of you because he feels mis-understood.
I have realized the value of staying consistent, as you say. It’s hard but so important. Making a conscious effort to teach my kids how to disagree appropriately has made a huge difference in my communication with them.
Nicholeen, I’ve learned a lot from you over the years! Thanks for sharing your amazing wisdom!
I have been trying to get my son to disagree appropriately. At first he was totally jazzed that he could disagree with me if he did it appropriately. However, several times his disagreement has been, “I don’t want to do the chore because it is a chore and I don’t want to do chores.” Because he has earned the chore for his inability to follow instructions, I have not backed down on the chore. If he has said something like, “I don’t want to do that because I am afraid my sister will get mad at me.” I have seen his side and talked to him. More often than not he has chosen to disagree appropriately to tell me he shouldn’t have to do the chore because he doesn’t want to though and now vocally has said disagreeing appropriately doesn’t matter because he still has to do the chore. I have talked to him several times about why I am not changing my mind (when he is calm and in an agreeable mood) and he has said he understood but I don’t know that he does. BTW he is almost 8 but is intellectually advanced, although not emotionally.
Marisa has a good point, our children are expressing the same thing. Although, I keep reminding them the extra chore is a consequence for being out of instructional control, not staying calm or blatant disrespect by saying– “I don’t want to or NO!”
Marisa and sharon,
It is good that you are not allowing him to maniputlate your family economy by choosing to diagree every time. Consistency is important to teaching cause and effect. However, every time he disagrees he should be praised even if you have to give him a no answer anyway. If he rages after you say no to his disagreement then he didn’t do the last two steps of disagreeing appropriately; accepting the person’s decision and dropping the subject. They need to be able to do the all the steps not just the first few.
To show your children that disagreeing appropriately works while still being able to keep to your need to be consistent then you might want to every once in a while deliberately say no to things when you would normally say yes. When you do this remind your children that they can disagree appropriately if you see that they could get upset or if they forget to disagree appropriately. This will help you have set times where you can say yes and then remind them that sometimes the answer is no and they will need to say okay to those times too.
If they rage after you give them a no any time then imediately start with the Rule of Three. Don’t be afraid to use it. It shows the children that respect and staying calm has to happen to ever voice opinion.
I could go on……….I hope this helps.
~Nicholeen
Nicholeen,
First I need togive you a HUGE thank you (and your family for supporting you) in fulfilling one of your life’s missions in helping families like mine. I can’t get over the wealth of wisdom you share, and how so much of it never occurred to me before :~) It has made a world of difference for my family.
I started homeschooling back in August. My 7 year old sometimes gives me attitude problems with school, just refusing to participate in certain lessons, etc. We’ve been practicing the principles in your book for almost two months now, so he understands the consequences for not following instructions of and extra chore, and another if he chooses not to do the chore. But sometimes he chooses not to do both chores. Then I go through the Rule of Three. He goes through that, following instructions, and taking his three deep breathes without a problem, but still won’t do his chores or participate in school on some of those crazy, moody days. It appears he’s found a loop hole, and he knows it. What do I do? Just keep adding on the jobs, or say since he isn’t doing his jobs he is not following instructions and therefore gets the negative consequences of the Rule of Three anyway? I just read one of you other posts about a motivational system when he follows all instructions for the day, and will try that too, but any other insights would be GREAT!
A related question: What do I do when we’re having an issue that I don’t want to budge on? My 12 y.o. every so often gets really angry about our household rule that we study a musical instrument until we are 18. It’s not negotiable in either my book or my husbands. I can see that my son often enjoys it, because he is good, (although he rarely admits it), but practicing is hard. I don’t blame him for disliking it at times. I remember very well how hard it was and how much I disliked it, but I also remember that when I hit about 13 or 14 I was glad that I’d kept going. I’d like to work on having him disagree appropriately instead of sassing, being sarcastic, and other disrespectful, argumentative behavior about it, but I realize that I’m not willing to compromise any more than I already have. I’ve reduced my expectation of how long he is to practice, given him choices in the music to learn. . . It doesn’t help matters that I am his teacher as well, but when I found another teacher who will teach him periodically, he was angry about that, although he is very cooperative with her. To give some perspective, he doesn’t fight me every day, but goes through streaks where he challenges much more, and it is usually when he’s had an extended break and we have to get back to it. Any suggestions?
Good question! I am going to write an entire post on this question. Keep watching the site for it. It will probably be a long one.
I already have lots of ideas on this. I have been this student and this teacher. 